210 split

[bigjunglejim]

In the artile about the 210 split, the author said he ported the split 210 on the back. Has anyone looked into adding space to the bottom of the split to add a port? I know it will change the interanal dimensions (again). From what I've read in the forum, it seemed Altec could have designed the box better. Is that true? IF so, how would Alte design the box today to provide good low end in a two way system using Bill's new 515's?

I was reading the forum late last night and saw someone asked for info on the "210 split". I'll post three pics of the article. If they don't come out well or you can't read them, send me a personal note and I will send you the pages directly.

[Steve Mac]

What would I do with a 2 way?
IMHO...Probably 515B's if a
2 way horn/relex were used.
Then I would build it with a mouth kinda square.
The problem with the 210 is in a "home" the
projection shape of the horn is all wrong.
It was meant to project far out.
And parallel side walls is a no no any way you
look at it...plain and simple.

Again...IMHO...I think the reflex is inferior to a
good horn loaded sub. So my question is why
bother with complicated horn/reflex design
when a pure horn design sounds better and has more
whallop down below? Well...I guess wife acceptance
factor is one reason.

I need to figure out the W.A.F. formula someday.
I know it looks something like this:
WAF = k*color/size

[Old Guy]

The Ubangi would be an example if you were looking at ways to improve the 210-

Were I designing today, I would do multiple way.

Each horn would cover no more than a decade.

DSP to time align would be a must.

Just one opinion, you know what they say...

[bigjunglejim]

I like my model 19's I wanted to fill a request for information on the 210 split. I have been curious about the split ever since I first read the article.

I had four 210's loaded with 515B's. After sitting unused for years, I sold them more than ten years ago. I never heard the 210's. They collected dust from the time I bought them to the time I sold them (I was broke at the time and needed money). I wish I had them now. What for? I dono. I have no place to use them (except my back yard). Some Altec fans are sick puppies. Am I one of those sick puppies? OF COURSE NOT.... WOOF

[Steve Schell]

I have always been skeptical of this 210 split business. A true bass horn can be a wonderful thing, but the front flare on a 210 was mostly intended to push the lower midrange through a perforated screen. The flare constant is too high and the path length is too short to enable a bass horn of any real capability.

[Old Guy]

Steve is 100% here.

I love the 210, but it's a definite compromise.

Even the big "W" cabs Altec marketed AKA RCA w bins are too short a horn, and they are much longer than 210's.

[valhallax]

my take on the 210 split is..unless the original cab is trashed beyond restoration, why would anyone destroy a peice of hisory? they dont make them anymore and unless one has an unlimited suply, a diy these days makes more sense.having not heard a 210..yet, they are at the very least esoteric in the value

[MERDY]

having tried various methods to get the best from a 515b from a big br cab( not ebs as GM suggested on another thread) to the square edgar type bottom(similar flare rate ?) i to was suspect of it , my other choice was to make a real bass horn ,but it looked huge, having read the sound pratice article it was always stuck on the back of my mind ,i had a couple of chats with mike frye, so i did give it a shot, having it horiziontal and using the floor to extend flare helped , and well it sounds good to my surprise , what i think it is a br with a waveguide that lifts low midbass, i still have to use subwoofers 4 15 jbl in 2m horn stacked to get 30hz,i ended crossing the subs at 70 hz 24/db
ok so its a a7 on steroids, which is why i invite members to listen and hear what it really is before i move in a different direction due to space
i have much to learn and should get back to horn theory but i just cannot seem to stop reading juggs

[bowtie427ss]

my take on the 210 split is..unless the original cab is trashed beyond restoration, why would anyone destroy a peice of hisory?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is an admirable notion, but in case you've never seen 210's in person, they're 34 inches in their smallest dimension making them an impossibility to fit thru many doorways. Factor in a 7 foot heigth, 40 inch depth, and close to 300 lbs unloaded weight and the priority of their preservation takes a big hit.

My cynical yet realistic take on them is that i'd rather see them castrated and cut in half, than crushed and covered in a landfill.

Also consider that more than just a handful were made, for a pretty lengthy span of time. I don't think they're quite in danger of extinction yet.

[GM]

Originally posted by MERDY:

ok so its a a7 on steroids.......

what i think it is a br with a waveguide that lifts low midbass........

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Apt description......

FYI, if these two sources are to be believed, the 210 or 210-split covers the upper bass:

From 'Complete Guide to High End Audio':

20-40 Hz: deep bass
40-80 Hz: midbass
80-160Hz: upper bass
160-320Hz: lower midrange
320-640Hz: (middle) midrange
640-1280Hz: upper midrange
1280-2560Hz: lower treble
2560-5120Hz: middle treble
5120-10240Hz: upper treble
10240-20480Hz: top octave

This is from 'How to Read The Absolute Sound' reprinted in Guide to HighEnd Audio Components 1992/1993:

below 32 Hz: Extreme bottom
20-40 Hz: low bass; bottom octave
40-80 Hz: mid bass
80-160Hz: upper bass
160-320Hz: lower midrange
320-2560Hz: midrange
2560-5120Hz: upper midrange
5120-10240Hz: highs; lower highs
10240-20000Hz: extreme highs; top octave

FWIW, until these were sent to me a several years ago, I used an ancient Bell Labs one that makes more sense to me and was still in common use as late as the mid '60s when I originally quit 'bench racing' audio:

infrasonic: below 20Hz
bass: 20-128Hz
midbass (tenor or alto): ~128-896Hz
mids (soprano): ~896-5,000Hz
treble (overtones): ~5,000-10,000Hz
super treble: 10-20kHz
ultrasonic: above 20kHz